I have a 1992 Accord manual tranny with 224k miles that I bought used 1.5 years ago. This is the first car I've ever driven that is manual and am trying to figure out what the real problem(s) are. Here are my symptoms:

1. On only certain mornings (seems more frequent when the weather is humid), when the engine is cold, if I try to shift into 1st around 15-1700 RPM, the entire car shakes HORRIBLY - like I'm in the middle of an earthquake. If I shift around 2000-2200, the car doesn't shake like that as much but feels like when it does shift into first like it grabs really hard - it kind of lurches into gear - not smoothly. This only happens until the engine warms up. Then I can't reproduce it (i.e. to show a tranny shop). Car drives fine when warm.

2. When the clutch is engaged but the tranny is in neutral, I hear a whirring sound which goes away when I disengage the clutch.

3. Lately I've been noticing the idle has been dropping when warm. It's always had a pretty bad vibration in the steering wheel at idle but now the idle often times is running slower - around 600 RPM (few times seen it as low as 550ish). I've read it's supposed to be more around 700. Am wondering if this is clutch drag or just an unrelated problem.

4. When trying to shift into Reverse, I sometimes can't get it to engage the first time and have to depress the clutch and try again a couple of times. When I come to a stop at a stop light I also have the same problem trying to shift into first gear when the light turns green. So I've resorted to shifting into first while slowing to a stop. But when the car slows down to allow the shift lever to move into 1st, it doesn't move smoothly. Instead it engages halfway, then fully - in two stages.

5. Don't know if this is related but I have a problem where no matter if my wheels are completely balanced, the car has a slight vibration at highway speed around 70 mph.

Here's what I've done:

1. Changed the transmission fluid right after I got it.
2. A shop has verified I have enough fluid

What two different shops have said:
1. Shop 1 has said I need a clutch. They said problem 1 could be due to a leak in system. But I've never seen any fluid leaks under the car. They said problem 2 was probably the throw out bearing. They quoted me something like $1100 or $1300 to do the clutch and a bearing kit.

2. Shop 2 (Cottmann Transmission) the guy drove it (when warm) and said he couldn't find anything wrong with it. But he thought that problem #4 was due to warn out gears in the gearbox and that I could pay them X dollars to drop the tranny and figure out what needs to be done (sounds expensive to me)

Here's my questions:
1. Which is it? Clutch? Gearbox? Master Cylinder? Slave Cylinder? Leak in the System? Or All of the Above?

2. On a 1992 Accord that has rust, the trunk leaks, the front shocks "crunch" when the temp is below 40 degrees, and I have a wheel bearing going bad, is it worth the money to drop $1100 on a clutch? I.E. How do I figure out how much life is left in the car to know if it's worthwhile?

3. How likely is it that the problem doesn't turn out to be a complete drive train rebuild? I don't want to agree to spend $1100 only to find out the car needs a new gearbox too and have it turn into a $2,000 repair bill on a car only worth $800-$1000.

Any thoughts?

 

To clarify #2, the clutch is engaged when you're NOT pressing down the pedal. You press down the pedal to disengage the clutch. Is that how you meant it?

Try this for #2:
Engine running, transmission in neutral, clutch engaged (pedal NOT pressed down). It should be making the whirring noise.
- Disengage the clutch by pressing down the pedal very quickly.
- Listen to the sound...

Does the sound stop IMMEDIATELY? That can be the throwout bearing. It can probably make the noise for a long time before anything serious happens.

Does the sound wind down like it's coasting to a stop over a couple seconds? That could be mainshaft bearings inside the trans. I'd deal with that, whether it's rebuild, replace, or find another car.

Like you say, you don't want to spend $1000 on a car that's worth $800 after it's fixed.

Do you experience any slipping of the clutch? (especially in 5th gear)

To clarify #1, does the shaking happen during the brief moment while you are engaging the clutch? That would be a chattering clutch which you might just live with for the cost of a new clutch.

 

You should do some diagnostics, and try some cheap stuff first.

First, you said that the fluid level has not changed, so there is no leak in your system. You may want to flush out the old brake fluid from the clutch hydraulics. It is pretty simple to do. I would also change the manual transmission fluid.

You should inspect for fluid leaks just to be thorough. Inside the boot of the slave cylinder and where the push-rod connecting the clutch pedal to the master cylinder are two places I have found fluid leaks.

Next, I would get more quotes on replacing the clutch, because $1100 too expensive to me.

 

You're right. I had gotten myself confused temporarily when I originally wrote that.

It depends on your definition of a "couple." If you mean 2-4 literal seconds, the answer is no. But if you mean 1 maybe 2 seconds, then yes. I can hear a short "spin down" on the noise. But it comes to a complete stop on average around 1 full second (1 Mississippi) sometimes perhaps as long as 1 1/2 seconds but no longer. Would that be descriptive of the main shaft since I'm hearing it "spin down" quickly to a stop?

Your test reminded me that shop #1 did something similar and he said it was the throwout bearing (but the guy testing it was at least 70 years old and may have lost some of his hearing). Would an audio or video clip help?

No, I was able to drive through the mountains of Tennessee (I40) over Christmas at 75ish mph and rarely had to downshift. No slipping.

Yes, the earthquake feel only happens while it's in the process of shifting. Once the clutch is released, the shutter stops. When you say live with for the cost of a clutch, are you saying a new clutch won't fix that? Or live with it to avoid a new clutch?

Transmission Shop #1 had thought this might be due to a leak in the seals as they said oil or water on the clutch can cause this. But I've never seen any fluid on the ground. (I'll be taking the other poster's advice tomorrow when there is light outside to find the slave cylinder and verify there are no leaks).

Please let me know what you think about the timing of the "spin down" noise! I really appreciate the advice.

 

A noisy throw-out bearing usually gets quiet as soon as there's some load to hold it together. That doesn't require ANY time. Zero.

Try it another way. Press the pedal down very slowly. As soon as it gets quiet, try to shift into gear while holding the pedal at that same position. I'm guessing you can't shift, because the mainshaft is still spinning. The synchro won't let you shift when it's spinning. (Don't force it with all your strength)

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Living with the chattering clutch is a way to avoid the repair bill for a new clutch. Not saying that the right answer for YOU & YOUR car. If you want to keep the car, then fix it. Or live with it as you save up the money.

It's a long shot, but you might be able to polish up the clutch (kinda like break-in of new brake pads). In an empty parking lot, try starting up in 3rd gear. Use enough gas to keep the RPM up maybe 2500. Let up the clutch pedal VERY VERY slowly. If it begins to chatter, press it back down & try different RPM. Don't keep it up more than say 60 or 90 seconds. Then drive around & let it cool down before trying it again. If the chattering is sufficiently bad, this might not improve it at all. But it's free, especially if you're emotionally prepared for it to be a waste of time.

Chattering clutch can be caused by uneven deposits of clutch material around the flywheel, just like chattering brakes are caused by uneven deposits of brakepad material around the rotors. It can also be caused by a physically warped clutch disk or broken components in the hub of the clutch disk. So there's a chance it'll just completely break.

 

I had a shop replace both of these fluids when I first purchased the car. I checked the overflow for the hydraulics and the level is fine.

Is the rubber boot for the slave cylinder supposed to pull back easily? I tried pulling on it and it felt quite snug - like I was going to tear something to pull it back. I see no signs of leakage at either site though.

 

The noise stops when the pedal is most of the way to the floor - about 1 1/2 inches (maybe 2) off the floor. When I get to the spot where the noise begins to fade out and try to shift into 1st before the noise is gone, it doesn't want to shift into gear easily. Because the noise goes away fairly quickly, it sometimes was doing a 2 stage shift movement of the shifter and sometimes didn't want to shift at all. I presume this verifies that it is a input shaft problem?

If so, is it dangerous to drive the car like that? And how long can I drive it before experiencing a problem? (I don't plan to pay to fix that in addition to whatever other clutch problems may exist). Shop #1 told me it was pretty expensive to do the main shaft, so I would probably just replace the car.

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When you say there's a chance it'll just completely break, are you talking about the clutch? If so, I probably won't try idea immediately as I'd like to keep the car running at least until summer before buying something else.

 

I really don't know how long you can last with noisy mainshaft bearings - haven't had that problem in my cars over the years. Maybe one of the guys who works at a shop or at a dealer...?

The most likely reason for a chattering clutch is the clutch material embedding in the flywheel. You should be pretty safe trying that method, but if it doesn't work then don't keep going more & more severe with it. You don't need to actually get the car moving. Just drag the clutch which will polish it up & maybe make it more uniform.

 

make sure the oil in your manuel trany is 30 weight or 5w 30. if hydrolic fluid is leaking it will be up under the dash above pedal. if these are ok you need to pull the trany and figure out whats wrong with the clutch.