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rear balancer shaft 92 accord

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Old Jul 20, 2013 | 01:37 PM
  #11  
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It should lock w/ pointer on balance shaft sprocket pointing to 5 o'clock position aligned w/ an intersection of two reinforcing ridges on the oil pump cover.

PM me if you want an instruction I downloaded several years back that is no longer on www.

good luck
 
Old Jul 20, 2013 | 02:24 PM
  #12  
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I've been going back and forth with sgull on this one via email, but I think it's now appropriate to continue in the forum, where we who have done this job can expand on each others comments.

Because of the gear case (whose internal gear has 32 teeth, while the gear on the balance shaft has 24 teeth) the balance shaft rotates 33% faster than the gear case sprocket.

Put another way, to go around once, the balance shaft gear must "move" 24 teeth.

How much has the internal gear case gear turned when the balance gear has moved 24 teeth?
24 teeth per rotation of the balance shaft sprocket divided by 32 teeth per rotation of the gear case sprocket = 0.75 of one rotation of the gear case sprocket.

When the the gear case sprocket has rotated exactly THREE times, the balance shaft has rotated exactly FOUR times.

Therefore, IF, and I do mean IF, the rod is certainly in the hole in the balance shaft when any mark on the gear-case sprocket is at "12 o'clock", the next time the balance shaft's hole will be in alignment with the access hole (rotating the gear case sprocket clockwise) will be when that mark has moved only 75% of the way from 12 o'clock noon to 12 o'clock midnight (in other words, only 75% of one rotation).
0.75 x 12 hours = 9 hours

So, if the rod is actually in the balance shaft's hole when a mark on the gear case sprocket is at 12 o'clock, the handle should go into the hole again when that sprocket's mark is rotated clockwise LESS THAN ONE COMPLETE TURN to 9 o'clock.

Once again, the gear case sprocket mark turns LESS than one complete rotation, but the hole in the shaft HAS rotated one complete rotation to exactly where it was when the rod was last inserted.

So the rod can go into the hole when a reference mark on the gear case sprocket is at 12 o'clock and also at 9 o'clock -- up to this point "in time", two clock positions.

Now, to find the shaft hole yet again, continue to rotate the gear case sprocket until its reference mark completes its first rotation at 12 o'clock. Now the sprocket-mark's SECOND rotation begins and the question to be answered is: during the SECOND rotation, when the mark is at what clock position will the rod go into the balance shaft's hole again? The answer is 6 o'clock. Why? Because the rod last entered the hole at 9 o'clock on the FIRST rotation and we know that the shaft hole aligns with the access hole at in interval 9 hours. Therefore, 9 o'clock in the FIRST ROTATION plus another 9 hours is 6 o'clock in the SECOND rotation.

So now we know that there are THREE positions (12 o'clock, 9 o'clock in the first rotation, and 6 o'clock in the second rotation) that the mark on the gear case sprocket will be located when the balance shaft hole will be in alignment with the access hole and the rod can be inserted.

Continuing the process, when does the hole get into proper alignment again? 6 o'clock plus 9 hours is 3 o'clock into the THIRD rotation of the gear case sprocket reference mark.

And, finally, 3 o'clock in the THIRD rotation plus 9 hours is 12 o'clock -- the END of the third rotation of the gear case sprocket mark. This is also the end of the FOURTH rotation of the balance shaft's 24-tooth gear.

To sum up, if a rod is indeed in the balance shaft's hole, AND a mark is then placed on a gear case tooth that is at the 12 o'clock position, the rod WILL go into the balance shaft's hole again when that same reference mark is rotated clockwise so that that reference mark is at 9 o'clock during the first rotation, 6 o'clock during the second rotation, 3 o'clock during the third rotation and, finally, 12 o'clock at the beginning of the fourth rotation.
 
Old Jul 20, 2013 | 03:25 PM
  #13  
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In response to Tony1M post above, my result of the V marker alignment position on the sprocket where I can insert the bit is close but not the same as what you've described should be the case. You say 12, 9, 6, then 3. I get 12, 9, 6, then 8. Mine is, again:
V at 12 o'clock with dot at 5 o'clock
V at 9 o'clock with dot at 2 o'clock
V at 6 o'clock with dot at 11 o'clock
V at 8 o'clock with dot at 3 o'clock (unless I'm mistaken; I can double check yet again).

Edit: Indeed I was mistaken as mentioned above. The last V mark was 3.
 

Last edited by sgull; Jul 21, 2013 at 11:01 AM. Reason: to correct my mistake
Old Jul 21, 2013 | 11:20 AM
  #14  
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To sum up, if a rod is indeed in the balance shaft's hole, AND a mark is then placed on a gear case tooth that is at the 12 o'clock position, the rod WILL go into the balance shaft's hole again when that same reference mark is rotated clockwise so that that reference mark is at 9 o'clock during the first rotation, 6 o'clock during the second rotation, 3 o'clock during the third rotation and, finally, 12 o'clock at the beginning of the fourth rotation.
After double check, I've now found for myself that Tony1M's statement quoted above and as he described post #12 here is entirely the case. (And I've edited my last post here to correct myself as to that last position).

It should lock w/ pointer on balance shaft sprocket pointing to 5 o'clock position aligned w/ an intersection of two reinforcing ridges on the oil pump cover.
I've found that TexasHonda's statement as quoted above is also the case. However, in addition to locking w/ pointer on balance shaft sprocket pointing to 5 o'clock w/ an intersection of two reinforcing ridges on the oil pump cover (in which position the other marker on the balance shaft sprocket is then at 12 o'clock) the shaft can be locked with the pin/bolt/rod inserted in the three other positions (mentioned in this thread) as well. I've decided to choose the position of when the V notch on the sprocket is at 12 o'clock and the other marker on the sprocket (which is a dot) is at 5 o'clock.

Thanks!
 

Last edited by sgull; Jul 21, 2013 at 11:22 AM.
Old Jul 21, 2013 | 11:30 AM
  #15  
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Thanks to Tony1M and TexasHonda who made this a great post for all members to go by..Thank You Men for your Information and guidence for the members..

WheelBrokerAng
 
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Old Jul 21, 2013 | 12:32 PM
  #16  
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There has to be a position where bolt will insert fully on every rotation. However, there is only one position w/ pointers aligned and bolt fully inserted.

If you align the crankshaft to TDC, the rear balance shaft should be aligned, and bolt/bit could be installed before removing the balance shaft belt. Manual doesn't suggest this however.

I almost forgot to pull the locking bolt from rear balance shaft on one occasion. I don't want to think what might have happened, if I started in the locked condition. Nothing good I'm sure!

Thanks for following up w/ outcome.

good luck
 
Old Jul 23, 2013 | 12:00 PM
  #17  
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The 24:32 reduction gear means that the sprocket doesn't turn the same as the actual shaft. If you are using the pin/drill/drift to hold the balance shaft, then you should NOT worry about the mark on the sprocket. If the pin goes in, then you know the shaft is in the proper position.
 
Old Jul 23, 2013 | 12:30 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by JimBlake
If you are using the pin/drill/drift to hold the balance shaft, then you should NOT worry about the mark on the sprocket. If the pin goes in, then you know the shaft is in the proper position.
I think I realize this now, finally. Somehow I got on the track of thinking the the marks on the sprocket mattered and that there should be only one particular apparent "correct" location among what seems to be three or four (while turning the sprocket and discovering places where the pin can go in) where the pin can go in. I made it more complicated (for myself) than it needed to be I think.
 
Old Jul 23, 2013 | 02:38 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by sgull
I think I realize this now, finally. Somehow I got on the track of thinking the the marks on the sprocket mattered and that there should be only one particular apparent "correct" location among what seems to be three or four (while turning the sprocket and discovering places where the pin can go in) where the pin can go in. I made it more complicated (for myself) than it needed to be I think.
All things considered, even though there is definitely more than a fair bit of confusion about their design and purpose, I think that Honda providing the slot in the timing belt tensioner and a corresponding threaded hole in the body of the engine/oil pump to accept a temporary bolt (a bolt that holds the timing tensioner in its proper postion on its pivot pin until the balance belt tensioner is installed) was a good idea.

But so many people have been confused and misled and wasted so much time and effort by those marks on the gear case sprocket, that I think that it was a mistake for Honda to include them. Getting the rod into the hole in the balance shaft on the first attempt is the one and only important thing. As this thread has demonstrated so well, because the rod can be inserted into that very same, one-and-only hole when the marks on the case sprocket are in several different positions, even when those folks doing the job are fully aware that the shaft and case sprockets do not turn at the same rate, the marks far too often serve only to erode one's belief that the balance shaft is exactly where it's supposed to be rather than reinforce it. As soon as one starts monkeying around with those mysterious marks on the gear case sprocket, certainty changes to uncertainty, hope begins to fade and off we go to seek the truth either at the stealership (good luck and bring plenty of money) or the HAF, where enlightenment is just a few (thousand) keystrokes away.
 
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