Tracking Down Short To Ground
Ok. I got it now, tested the yellow/green wire with the accessories on and got power of 11 volts. (Wouldn't light up for test light though). Resistance in green wire to distributor was like 40 m/ohms and resistance in yellow/green wire was 1.1 K/Ohms. This is good news, I don't have to worry about tracking down an open.
I tested my coil and it was within range of resistance but I think the light was kind of dim and flickering. Found a long crack in the back of the ignition coil.
I guess to see if the coil is putting out high voltage, like 25k volts I'd have to use an HEI ignition tester? Here is picture of coil
Thanks~
I tested my coil and it was within range of resistance but I think the light was kind of dim and flickering. Found a long crack in the back of the ignition coil.
I guess to see if the coil is putting out high voltage, like 25k volts I'd have to use an HEI ignition tester? Here is picture of coil
Thanks~
I am not sure you are testing properly. Plus your descriptions are vague.
You need to tell us if the wire you were testing was unplugged. If unplugged, were you testing the wire harness or the component side? Or you could be back-probing a plugged in connector.
If you want to use your test light to test the yel/grn signal, hook your test light to the + battery terminal. Touch to ground to make sure your light turns on. Unplug the connector to the coil. Touch on the test light to the yel/grn wire. The light should be off. Have someone try to start the car. The test light should flash.
Since there is a crack in the coil, there is a good chance it is shorting to ground and is bad.
You need to tell us if the wire you were testing was unplugged. If unplugged, were you testing the wire harness or the component side? Or you could be back-probing a plugged in connector.
If you want to use your test light to test the yel/grn signal, hook your test light to the + battery terminal. Touch to ground to make sure your light turns on. Unplug the connector to the coil. Touch on the test light to the yel/grn wire. The light should be off. Have someone try to start the car. The test light should flash.
Since there is a crack in the coil, there is a good chance it is shorting to ground and is bad.
I am not sure you are testing properly. Plus your descriptions are vague.
You need to tell us if the wire you were testing was unplugged. If unplugged, were you testing the wire harness or the component side? Or you could be back-probing a plugged in connector.
If you want to use your test light to test the yel/grn signal, hook your test light to the + battery terminal. Touch to ground to make sure your light turns on. Unplug the connector to the coil. Touch on the test light to the yel/grn wire. The light should be off. Have someone try to start the car. The test light should flash.
Since there is a crack in the coil, there is a good chance it is shorting to ground and is bad.
You need to tell us if the wire you were testing was unplugged. If unplugged, were you testing the wire harness or the component side? Or you could be back-probing a plugged in connector.
If you want to use your test light to test the yel/grn signal, hook your test light to the + battery terminal. Touch to ground to make sure your light turns on. Unplug the connector to the coil. Touch on the test light to the yel/grn wire. The light should be off. Have someone try to start the car. The test light should flash.
Since there is a crack in the coil, there is a good chance it is shorting to ground and is bad.
Edit: Retested wires unplugged: green wire 161 k/Ohms and yellow/green wire 106 k/Ohms. Is there something a benchmark test for Ohms, something that is a good number to know my readings are on. Thanks
Update: Checked resistance of the spark plug wires for cylinder #1 registered at 12 k/Ohm's. Looked at the plugs they are marked 1995. Yikes. Prestolite...I think these are originals.
Last edited by Hondahonda; Mar 22, 2014 at 07:46 PM. Reason: Update
Updated:
Ok. Feel stupid, there was apparently too much gap between the spark plug end and the ground. I bridged this gap with my spark plug tester and put it's metal clip near the manifold and got a spark.
PaHonda, thanks so much for your advice on how to test for ground! I found ground on the black/yellow wire to my ignition coil and on the black wire going to my distributor, so both are grounded good. Yay. Tomorrow I'll check the yellow/green wire for that pulse, I actually watched a video a couple of times that suggested testing the signal wire. I wasn't aware you could test for ground, thanks for imbuing your electrical knowledge upon me. I imagine tomorrow I'll test the signal wire and it will pulse, and then I'll be pretty sure it's the ICM. Either that or a possible short right?
Update: 03/24 Tested signal wire today and it pulsed, yay. Computer is sending signal. I tested for ground again and I'm receiving ground on the blk/yellow wire to ignition coil with car off and power with the car on. I realized I was testing the distributor with the coil plugged in, whoops. Now with the coil ignition wire unplugged from the distributor I'm receiving no power from any of the wires. Ground is good though and even stays on when car is cranked. When coil is plugged in last time, I received power at the big yellow wire to ignition coil and from the green wire to distributor both off main harness.
So, why isn't the distributor getting power?
Ok. Feel stupid, there was apparently too much gap between the spark plug end and the ground. I bridged this gap with my spark plug tester and put it's metal clip near the manifold and got a spark.
PaHonda, thanks so much for your advice on how to test for ground! I found ground on the black/yellow wire to my ignition coil and on the black wire going to my distributor, so both are grounded good. Yay. Tomorrow I'll check the yellow/green wire for that pulse, I actually watched a video a couple of times that suggested testing the signal wire. I wasn't aware you could test for ground, thanks for imbuing your electrical knowledge upon me. I imagine tomorrow I'll test the signal wire and it will pulse, and then I'll be pretty sure it's the ICM. Either that or a possible short right?
Update: 03/24 Tested signal wire today and it pulsed, yay. Computer is sending signal. I tested for ground again and I'm receiving ground on the blk/yellow wire to ignition coil with car off and power with the car on. I realized I was testing the distributor with the coil plugged in, whoops. Now with the coil ignition wire unplugged from the distributor I'm receiving no power from any of the wires. Ground is good though and even stays on when car is cranked. When coil is plugged in last time, I received power at the big yellow wire to ignition coil and from the green wire to distributor both off main harness.
So, why isn't the distributor getting power?
Last edited by Hondahonda; Mar 24, 2014 at 04:35 PM.
I'm still confused on your testing of the blk/yel wire, so I'll give some more suggestions on how I'd test.
First of all, when you test for spark, touch the threads of the spark plug to ground. Or using the spark tester, clip the tester to a good ground. A valve cover bolt is a good ground to use. The spark plug tip is not electrically connected to the threads/ground electrode (l shaped metal connected to threads). That gap between the tip and electrode is what you need to test.
For the power, etc to the distributor. Unplug only the coil. Turn key to the II position. Check for power to the blk/yel wire.
Plug in coil. Unplug only distributor. Measure voltage on both the green and the yellow wire (may be blk/yel) wire going to the distributor (don't test the wires that are part of the distributor).
Since you saw spark, you try this simple test. Turn the key to the II position, but do not try to start the car. When the check engine light turns on for about two seconds to test the bulb, the fuel pump should turn on for about two seconds. The fuel pump makes a faint buzzing/whirling sound and comes from the back seat, so turn off the radio, blower, etc... and listen carefully. Let us know if you hear the fuel pump prime.
First of all, when you test for spark, touch the threads of the spark plug to ground. Or using the spark tester, clip the tester to a good ground. A valve cover bolt is a good ground to use. The spark plug tip is not electrically connected to the threads/ground electrode (l shaped metal connected to threads). That gap between the tip and electrode is what you need to test.
For the power, etc to the distributor. Unplug only the coil. Turn key to the II position. Check for power to the blk/yel wire.
Plug in coil. Unplug only distributor. Measure voltage on both the green and the yellow wire (may be blk/yel) wire going to the distributor (don't test the wires that are part of the distributor).
Since you saw spark, you try this simple test. Turn the key to the II position, but do not try to start the car. When the check engine light turns on for about two seconds to test the bulb, the fuel pump should turn on for about two seconds. The fuel pump makes a faint buzzing/whirling sound and comes from the back seat, so turn off the radio, blower, etc... and listen carefully. Let us know if you hear the fuel pump prime.
F22B1 engine, primary winding resistance between A and B terminals should be between 0.4 and 0.6 ohms and the secondary winding between terminal A and secondary terminals should be between 22 and 34 ohms.
F22B2 engine, primary winding resistance between A bad B terminals should be between 0.6 and 0.8 ohms and the secondary winding between terminal A and secondary terminals should be between 14 and 22 ohms.
Both the above are measured at 68 degrees because temperature effects resistance.
Honestly, I would check the tach signal to the distributor. If you have no or weak tach signal then the most common cause is a bad ignitor. They go bad over time and given the mileage on your car it is a likely candidate for the no spark/not running issue.
Good luck.
F22B2 engine, primary winding resistance between A bad B terminals should be between 0.6 and 0.8 ohms and the secondary winding between terminal A and secondary terminals should be between 14 and 22 ohms.
Both the above are measured at 68 degrees because temperature effects resistance.
Honestly, I would check the tach signal to the distributor. If you have no or weak tach signal then the most common cause is a bad ignitor. They go bad over time and given the mileage on your car it is a likely candidate for the no spark/not running issue.
Good luck.
PaHonda, thanks. I tested connectors today and got power from the blk/yellow wire to coil and from the green wire to distributor. (Tested both with spark plug wire plugged in going to distributor, hope this is the right way). I also put a spark plug wire from the coil to the valve cover and noticed an orange spark. I then double-checked by putting the spark plug wire end by itself and noticed a small orange spark. I tested car already with a new coil, so I think the coil took the ICM with it as well. It was probably zapping the ICM when it started dieing 3 weeks ago, eventually the ICM was just fried.
Thanks for your help everyone. I'll report back if that solves it.
Thanks for your help everyone. I'll report back if that solves it.
Well, I'm quite happy to report after I installed the new distributor & coil the car fired right up. Thank you guys for your help and patience in troubleshooting the car.
I knew the coil was bad, and the distributor proved itself bad too but I didn't test the CPS before I returned it, so I'll never know if it was the ICM or the cylinder position sensor. At this point though, I just hope somebody else can benefit from this thread if they get down to the same two components(Test CPS for proper resistance, etc)
Update 04/01: After I installed the new coil my high beams work. Now I can toggle the switch between low/high when I have it set on high beams. If I would have recognized that the coil was responsible for the high beams issue my distributor would have never been fried. Something to keep in mind for somebody else, who has a crank, no start issue and leading up to the incident there high beams weren't working.
I knew the coil was bad, and the distributor proved itself bad too but I didn't test the CPS before I returned it, so I'll never know if it was the ICM or the cylinder position sensor. At this point though, I just hope somebody else can benefit from this thread if they get down to the same two components(Test CPS for proper resistance, etc)
Update 04/01: After I installed the new coil my high beams work. Now I can toggle the switch between low/high when I have it set on high beams. If I would have recognized that the coil was responsible for the high beams issue my distributor would have never been fried. Something to keep in mind for somebody else, who has a crank, no start issue and leading up to the incident there high beams weren't working.
Last edited by Hondahonda; Apr 1, 2014 at 09:57 PM. Reason: Update
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