First timer timing belt/water pump on 94 4cyl underway
#13
Having personally changed 3 different timing belts on 3 different Honda Accords, I can tell you it's not that bad of a job to do, but you just need to take your time and not get into a hurry. The first timing belt I did, was my FIRST. I had a Haynes book, and the sheet that Aisin includes with their timing belt kit (very good instructions). The hardest part f the job was getting the harmonic balancer bolt loose. I used a jack stand to hold the car up with the LF tire off, and a 2nd jack stand to hold 2 feet of extensions, and armed with my 1/2 inch breaker bar (and 3 ft cheater pipe) broke that sucker loose. Once it's loose, you can get the lower cover off, the harmonic balancer off, the belts off. You need it off so everything else can be done as far as the belts go.
Once you get the power steering pump off, then take the 3 bolts (14mm) out that hold the bracket in place. Next, and 2nd hardest part of the job, getting the alternator off. It's got 1 thru bolt, and 1 captured bolt that's also set up as part of the tensioner set up. Then once the alternator is off (I just laid it back toward the cowl/intake manifold), take out the 4 bolts (14mm) holding that bracket in place too. The idea behind removing these items is to give you as much extra room as possible. Keep in mind you still need to remove the engine mount above the left tire, and it uses a deep 17mm socket to remove it. It needs to be removed, so you can lower the engine on that side and get the belts off, along with the timing cover (bottom half). You'll also need to remove the 12mm bolt/plug access cover for a 200mm long M6 bolt (I used a 7/32 allen wrench on the last one) to lock the oil pump as called out in several places (for doing the balance shaft belt). That bolt is located just behind and slightly above the left drive axle.
The big key I found when putting it back together, is to get the upper tensioner on BOTH the bolt, AND the pin (so it can pivot). If it's not on the pin, you can't get the tensioner to do it's job.
As someone else mentioned above, if your balance shaft doesn't have the retainer, INSTALL one. I found this out after I'd done the belts on the first Honda, only to have the balance shaft seal blow out and dump 3 quarts of oil in 30 feet at just above warm idle speed (the car was backing down the driveway). I had Carquest order me 1 up, as they didn't have 1 in stock. The next 2 belt jobs I did I installed it while I was doing the belts. I used the Dorman retainer, and it comes with a new seal. I got it from Rock Auto for less than half the cost of the Carquest one (same exact part). I call it cheap insurance on installing them, especially when you're doing timing belts, as you've already got the cover off (it's held on by 1 bolt).
If you have any other questions, let us know, and I hope this helps.
Once you get the power steering pump off, then take the 3 bolts (14mm) out that hold the bracket in place. Next, and 2nd hardest part of the job, getting the alternator off. It's got 1 thru bolt, and 1 captured bolt that's also set up as part of the tensioner set up. Then once the alternator is off (I just laid it back toward the cowl/intake manifold), take out the 4 bolts (14mm) holding that bracket in place too. The idea behind removing these items is to give you as much extra room as possible. Keep in mind you still need to remove the engine mount above the left tire, and it uses a deep 17mm socket to remove it. It needs to be removed, so you can lower the engine on that side and get the belts off, along with the timing cover (bottom half). You'll also need to remove the 12mm bolt/plug access cover for a 200mm long M6 bolt (I used a 7/32 allen wrench on the last one) to lock the oil pump as called out in several places (for doing the balance shaft belt). That bolt is located just behind and slightly above the left drive axle.
The big key I found when putting it back together, is to get the upper tensioner on BOTH the bolt, AND the pin (so it can pivot). If it's not on the pin, you can't get the tensioner to do it's job.
As someone else mentioned above, if your balance shaft doesn't have the retainer, INSTALL one. I found this out after I'd done the belts on the first Honda, only to have the balance shaft seal blow out and dump 3 quarts of oil in 30 feet at just above warm idle speed (the car was backing down the driveway). I had Carquest order me 1 up, as they didn't have 1 in stock. The next 2 belt jobs I did I installed it while I was doing the belts. I used the Dorman retainer, and it comes with a new seal. I got it from Rock Auto for less than half the cost of the Carquest one (same exact part). I call it cheap insurance on installing them, especially when you're doing timing belts, as you've already got the cover off (it's held on by 1 bolt).
If you have any other questions, let us know, and I hope this helps.
#14
Followup... back from the dead...
The car's been sitting (in the garage thankfully) while I was going to school all fall, didn't have time to retackle things until xmas break here because it's parked 250 miles from where I live and go to school. Giving this another go. One advantage is that I have up to three weeks to work as long as I don't mind the cold. (as long as jan 7th during this window of time to finish the job)
I bought the Eric the Car Guy video that people recommend and have watched it twice so far - it's a good video (not perfect, i'll review/comment in depth after I get this job done actually, but I actually still want to rewatch part of the free videos in addition to this/I wish a few extra angles or bits of info could have been shown at a few parts) but in general it shows things more clearly than the "free" videos online so far.
I watched the video twice and things seem alot clearer to me now, however one sticking point involves those cam seals. That part of the job looks relatively easy I mean i'm just wondering about the tools. Eric uses a proper Honda tool for the cam seals and i'm curious is this reliably DIY'able without a fairly simple looking tool or is there a recommended version of the tool to use or what? I hate paying $50 for something i'll maybe use once but it's still better to do the job right. He doesn't use the 'proper' pullers or installers on two other seals in the kit, so i'm simultaneously curious about them - my main question about my expected sticking point - (CAM) SEALS AND THE TOOLS THAT LOVE THEM. I think I have a handle finally on what parts to remove in what order otherwise.
The car's been sitting (in the garage thankfully) while I was going to school all fall, didn't have time to retackle things until xmas break here because it's parked 250 miles from where I live and go to school. Giving this another go. One advantage is that I have up to three weeks to work as long as I don't mind the cold. (as long as jan 7th during this window of time to finish the job)
I bought the Eric the Car Guy video that people recommend and have watched it twice so far - it's a good video (not perfect, i'll review/comment in depth after I get this job done actually, but I actually still want to rewatch part of the free videos in addition to this/I wish a few extra angles or bits of info could have been shown at a few parts) but in general it shows things more clearly than the "free" videos online so far.
I watched the video twice and things seem alot clearer to me now, however one sticking point involves those cam seals. That part of the job looks relatively easy I mean i'm just wondering about the tools. Eric uses a proper Honda tool for the cam seals and i'm curious is this reliably DIY'able without a fairly simple looking tool or is there a recommended version of the tool to use or what? I hate paying $50 for something i'll maybe use once but it's still better to do the job right. He doesn't use the 'proper' pullers or installers on two other seals in the kit, so i'm simultaneously curious about them - my main question about my expected sticking point - (CAM) SEALS AND THE TOOLS THAT LOVE THEM. I think I have a handle finally on what parts to remove in what order otherwise.
Last edited by fixinmyself; 12-18-2017 at 12:05 PM.
#15
Followup... back from the dead...
The car's been sitting (in the garage thankfully) while I was going to school all fall, didn't have time to retackle things until xmas break here because it's parked 250 miles from where I live and go to school. Giving this another go. One advantage is that I have up to three weeks to work as long as I don't mind the cold. (as long as jan 7th during this window of time to finish the job)
I bought the Eric the Car Guy video that people recommend and have watched it twice so far - it's a good video (not perfect, i'll review/comment in depth after I get this job done actually, but I actually still want to rewatch part of the free videos in addition to this/I wish a few extra angles or bits of info could have been shown at a few parts) but in general it shows things more clearly than the "free" videos online so far.
I watched the video twice and things seem alot clearer to me now, however one sticking point involves those cam seals. That part of the job looks relatively easy I mean i'm just wondering about the tools. Eric uses a proper Honda tool for the cam seals and i'm curious is this reliably DIY'able without a fairly simple looking tool or is there a recommended version of the tool to use or what? I hate paying $50 for something i'll maybe use once but it's still better to do the job right. He doesn't use the 'proper' pullers or installers on two other seals in the kit, so i'm simultaneously curious about them - my main question about my expected sticking point - (CAM) SEALS AND THE TOOLS THAT LOVE THEM. I think I have a handle finally on what parts to remove in what order otherwise.
The car's been sitting (in the garage thankfully) while I was going to school all fall, didn't have time to retackle things until xmas break here because it's parked 250 miles from where I live and go to school. Giving this another go. One advantage is that I have up to three weeks to work as long as I don't mind the cold. (as long as jan 7th during this window of time to finish the job)
I bought the Eric the Car Guy video that people recommend and have watched it twice so far - it's a good video (not perfect, i'll review/comment in depth after I get this job done actually, but I actually still want to rewatch part of the free videos in addition to this/I wish a few extra angles or bits of info could have been shown at a few parts) but in general it shows things more clearly than the "free" videos online so far.
I watched the video twice and things seem alot clearer to me now, however one sticking point involves those cam seals. That part of the job looks relatively easy I mean i'm just wondering about the tools. Eric uses a proper Honda tool for the cam seals and i'm curious is this reliably DIY'able without a fairly simple looking tool or is there a recommended version of the tool to use or what? I hate paying $50 for something i'll maybe use once but it's still better to do the job right. He doesn't use the 'proper' pullers or installers on two other seals in the kit, so i'm simultaneously curious about them - my main question about my expected sticking point - (CAM) SEALS AND THE TOOLS THAT LOVE THEM. I think I have a handle finally on what parts to remove in what order otherwise.
But, I think you're making this out to be more than it really is. You mainly just want to change the belts, and water pump. Then do a cooling system flush. Cam seals can actually be done at a later date, or now if you have a leak. Basically it's just a matter of removing the timing gear, popping out the seal (some sort of hook tool, or even a screw driver) and then installing the new seal (using a deep socket as a driver to seat it), then re-install the timing gear. Anything more that you read into it, or overthink, becomes a hang up and gets in the way of doing the job. These are simple machines, with simple solutions. Now trying to get access sometimes can be a PIA, but still it can be done. Sometimes you just have to "think outside the box".
#16
I kinda go along with that. If it's not leaking...
That said, if you're going to replace it, check it carefully before you remove the old one. I'm not sure, but I think the risk (and the need for the tool) is that you don't push it too far in. Many other places, you push the seal in until it stops.
If the outside of the seal is flush with the surrounding metal, then you can probably do this with a large flat washer. The outside of the washer has to be big enough that it will absolutely stop you pushing the seal before it's in too far.
That said, if you're going to replace it, check it carefully before you remove the old one. I'm not sure, but I think the risk (and the need for the tool) is that you don't push it too far in. Many other places, you push the seal in until it stops.
If the outside of the seal is flush with the surrounding metal, then you can probably do this with a large flat washer. The outside of the washer has to be big enough that it will absolutely stop you pushing the seal before it's in too far.
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